Samstag, 22. März 2014

A political case


Q: Do you regret anything?

“I would do exactly the same [today that I did then], with a small difference: I would not leave the Polícia Judiciária. It could be a problem for the Polícia Judiciária. I did think about it then, shall I leave or not, if I stay with the police I’m a problem for the police, or if I leave, I have all of the other problems.”

“I don’t regret what I did, I did it with conviction, I did it to defend the investigation model, what a criminal investigation is supposed to be. Earlier, you spoke about the politically correct, the politically correct policeman. It is my understanding that criminal investigations cannot be politically correct, because they can’t be concerned with politics. And what happened, and continues to happen, is that we have to be politically correct, subordinate to the English power. That happens, it happened on the 2nd of October [of 2007] at the Lisbon Treaty, there were discussions between José Sócrates, then prime minister, and Gordon Brown, the English prime minister, who told the newspapers that he had asked the Portuguese prime minister about the [Maddie] case. So even before that it was already a political case. And when politics intrude into a criminal investigation, nothing will end well, whether the criminal investigation relates to a homicide, a burglary, a disappearance, or corruption.”

“Going back to the beginning of the question, I don’t have any regrets. I don’t have regrets because although principles and values don’t fill the fridge, I feel rich in another way.”

Q: Was Maddie McCann abducted or is she dead?

“Maddie McCann disappeared and since that time she is – she died. She died that night. Those are the conclusions that are reached in the process itself: In September of 2007, the Polícia Judiciária concludes – and this is a conclusion within an investigation that was not over yet but has a principle there – it’s a sequence of indications that are collected which reaches the conclusion that it is very likely that she died. She died that night. The circumstances of the death are still to be determined. What mechanism – what happened for that death to take place is yet to be discovered.”

“And if the parents nowadays make us believe that their daughter is alive, or have to gamble on her being alive, they forget that right after the investigation it was them that were the first to signal death. They were the first to say that their daughter – that it was necessary for a coronel from the South African army to come with a miracle machine to find the body. So it’s the parents that invite him to come to Portugal, to find a body.”

“Later, years later they say that she is still alive. And now the Scotland Yard, apparently already with their agreement, or their tacit agreement, says that the child is dead. That is the obvious. What usually happens in this kind of situation – for years they have mentioned other cases – if a certain child disappears and reappears after several years, alive and even with children, with the abductor, then Madeleine may also probably be alive. But they forget a small detail. Actually, they don’t forget it, they just don’t enlighten us, because these people have all of the information, they have staff that works with the entire information, which is also a bit strange, but they forget a detail: all of those children that have reappeared, whether in Austria or in the United States, they weren’t three or four years old when they disappeared. They were all close to the age of 10. All of them were girls and close to the age of 9, 10. None of them disappeared aged 3 or 4.”

“When an abductor makes a girl his slave, what we have seen is that the age is not 3 or 4, but much closer to adolescence. They forget that detail.”

“I have no doubts about what happened to Madeleine McCann. Madeleine McCann died that day, that night, in that apartment, and her body disappeared.”

Q: On what do you base that conviction?

“On many things. A series of indications, a series of contradictions, the witness statements of the parents, the witness statements of their friends, the traces that were collected with the assistance of special English dogs that never failed in the United Kingdom, they now work with the FBI. They never failed. At the time, we were introduced to several cases and situations, all of them they worked in and never failed. The possibility is that they failed in Portugal. Maybe it was the heat.”

Q: Was there human blood in the car boot and inside the apartment?

“No doubt. Inside the apartment and in the car boot. That human blood, the English lab even says, there is a report in the process, that says it’s the daughter of – the daughter of Gerald McCann, it’s a descendant of his. Later on, they change the hypothesis, and say that the combination of the DNA may be from anyone. By coincidence, in that case the DNA is very similar, 90% similar to that of Madeleine McCann, but it could be DNA built by myself, by Júlio Magalhães or by you, and then it would result in that DNA profile. But the funny thing is that it results in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann. It does not result in the DNA profile of Júlio Magalhães, or of Gonçalo Amaral or of Luís Filipe Menezes. Not even in that of the doctor who performed the test.”

“We have no doubts, and this was discussed even at the level of Portuguese justice, at the level of the Public Ministry, that there was an alteration at the English lab. The data was manipulated. The FSS, the British lab, which was already questioned over several situations, even concerning the IRA in Ireland, over bomb attacks, those traces, that way to find the DNA, to examine the DNA with low copy number, was called into question relating to traces found on a bomb in an Irish case. And that lab was called into question.”

“But there is a situation, concerning the lab, which has to be taken into account. There are the registers that are performed by the technicians, by the scientists that examine, and we have to look at those registers, at what they wrote. On an everyday basis, as they examined the evidence, the traces that were sent over, what they wrote along. And then we see the result in that report that they sent over to Portugal.”

“Then there’s another situation. It is still possible to find out or to collect indications of whether or not the dogs failed. If inside that car boot – I’m referring to the car that was rented by the McCanns some 15 or 20 days after the disappearance – blood traces were found, traces that the lab says may be, although there is no full certainty, that may be from Madeleine McCann, hair was also found. Hair which the laboratory says, from its coloration, which is how this used to be done in the old days, by comparing the coloration, if it belonged to the person or not. Nowadays it is possible to perform, and then it was already possible, to perform DNA tests on hair. Some say it’s only possible to identify the DNA profile with the root of the hair, the English lab says it’s not possible because these have no root, therefore they don’t perform the test. That hair is in Portugal, it was returned to Portugal. They are next to the process. It’s simple: the Public Ministry, that has the investigation, should take that hair and send it to a lab in Europe or elsewhere, where that type of test is done, without the need for the root of the hair.”

Q: That was never done?

“That was never done. It was never done and what is said is that there may have been a contamination. But we end up not knowing whether that hair belongs to Madeleine McCann or not. That’s another doubt to discuss, to clarify. Now, there cannot be a piece of evidence while we’re here talking about the man who died under the tractor and quit his job a month before because there was 5 euro missing –“

Q: Why did neither the PJ nor the SY question the Smith family?

“It was on the day of the Lisbon Treaty, which happens to be my birthday, on the 2nd of October of 2007. It was the Lisbon Treaty, it’s my birthday on the 2nd of October, and I was “fired” from Portimão on the 2nd of October. And that is the time when we were preparing for the head of that family, a family of approximately 5, it was him, his wife, his son, his daughter-in-law, his daughter, to come to Portugal. On the night of the 3rd of May, at around 10 p.m., when they were returning from a restaurant in Praia da Luz, they crossed paths with an individual who was coming down a certain street towards the beach, carrying a child with her head on his shoulder, as if she was asleep. Later on they say that - they see the news, because on the following day they returned to Ireland – they say it may have been Madeleine McCann and the person who was carrying Madeleine McCann.”

“These people were heard within the process right away in May/June, they came to Portugal, they were heard, they gave a description of the person, physically, how he walked, they described his clothes, whether he was Portuguese or not, they said he’d be a tourist because he was tanned, not a Latin man, they also indicate the person’s age, the age of the child, approximately, according to her size, and that was it.”

“It was only later, when Gerald McCann and Kate McCann leave Portugal to go to England, in September, after being heard as arguidos, when they flee, literally, they fled to England, and the English police followed suit, because they were here cooperating with us but then they also disappeared, and we concluded that the English police was in Portugal merely to somehow protect that couple.”

“But when they arrive in England, there’s an image that went around the world, which shows Gerald McCann coming down the stairs of the plane, the stairs that access the plane, and walking on the runway with one of the twins in the same position, in his arms with the head here [on the shoulder]. And what that family says is that this individual, from the way that he walks, the way that he carries the child, is the person that they saw on the night of the 3rd of May. They don’t say anything else. What happens? We initiated the diligences to bring them to Portugal, to hear him, it would be the father of the family that would come over, he was available to come, and everything was prepared. Authorizations from the PJ’s national director for them to come to Portugal, the tickets were about to be emitted, we still had to book a hotel, so it was only a matter of logistics.”

“And on the 2nd of October, after I was questioned by a paper, Diário de Notícias, about what I thought of the English police saying that Madeleine had been sighted in Morocco, I unburdened that they should worry about what really had happened to Madeleine instead of worrying about other situations because when the English police left Portugal, what was agreed upon between the Portuguese police and the English police was that the investigation had to move forward in terms of understanding how the death had occurred. The death of Madeleine McCann. And what had happened to the body.”

“We were not discussing abductions or that the child had been taken to become a sex slave, none of that. We were speaking about death and concealment of a body. And it’s on that 2nd of October that I leave. I left the investigation, it’s on that 2nd of October that Gordon Brown speaks with José Sócrates – it would be good if Mr José Sócrates would explain, if he is able to explain what happened – I think that his stance was one of – from what I could understand at that time, a stance of distance from the investigation, he didn’t give a lot of importance to Gordon Brown’s statement – Gordon Brown tried to involve the Portuguese prime minister in that controversy, so to speak.”

“But the person that later substituted me understands that it is not relevant to bring the Irish to Portugal. And that was it. So never again were the Irish heard, they were heard through –“

Q: How is it possible that the English prime minister’s spokesman quit Tony Blair to become the McCanns’ spokesman within 24 hours?

“That’s another mystery within the mystery. And if we understand that little mystery, maybe we can understand what lies behind, not the disappearance, not the child’s death, but behind the protection – why protect this family, this couple?”

Q: Have you noticed that couple’s power?

“Yes, I have. I even notice it in my bank account, in what I receive at the end of every month. This is what has been happening.”

Q: Is it true that one of the group’s members had been denounced earlier on by another friend over behavior that could indicate some extravagant behavior in terms of a tendency towards pedophilia?

“There is a mysterious figure, it’s another part of the mystery that may even be related to Clarence Mitchell leaving the British government to support the couple. You can say it’s a conspiracy theory, but it’s not. There is a British couple, also doctors, who went on holiday with the McCann couple two years earlier, with the children, with Madeleine, and with other couples of doctors, including a gentleman called David Payne. David Payne is the last witness. He is the witness that says that on the 3rd of May he went to the apartment and he saw those children and that they looked like heavenly angels, they were very clean, very white, something truly heavenly.”

“This is the person that bathed, during these holidays that he organized, he bathed the little girls aged 2 and 3. Not only his children, but also the other couples’ children. And it’s under those circumstances and in comments that he makes during a holiday period, and according to the statement of Dr Katherine Gaspar, this is the name of the person that denounces, the statement is in the process – and this is something, if we have time, that I’ll try to explain.”

“What she says is that he made gestures and asked questions about Madeleine McCann, to Gerald McCann, in front Madeleine McCann herself, who was then aged 2.”

Q: Did the investigation never explore the possibility of that person being a paedophile?

“Exactly, this is the question. That statement arrived in Portugal after I left the investigation. I left on the 2nd of October, they arrived a couple of months later. It’s a statement from Dr Katherine Gaspar and her husband, to the British police, on the 16th of May of 2007, two weeks after the disappearance, statements that the Portuguese police was not informed about, and which arrive in Portugal by mail, not by fax, underneath other documents, and those statements are loose, and someone with the British police, what he did was, here’s these statements, now you go and investigate, question. And never did anyone at the Portuguese police, those who substituted me, they didn’t question anyone. Neither did the Scotland Yard. Nobody interrogates, nobody investigates what is happening there.”

“Dr Katherine Gaspar, who denounced Mr David Payne to the British police, was never heard within the Portuguese process. And she was never included in the rogatory letter that was sent by the Portuguese authorities. This is the truth. We have abductions and burglaries, but the things that are in the process are not investigated.”

Q: This is never going to be solved, is it?

“I think that it will be solved. It will be solved as soon as there is the political will on both sides.”

Q: If it turns out that Madeleine McCann was in fact dead, do you want to be compensated?

“Well, if I use the McCann couple’s strategy, it has already been recognized. The Scotland Yard has already said that she is dead.”

Q: If you had the same financial resources that the McCann couple has with their fund, would you have found the perpetrators?

“I would have done a lot to try to find the perpetrators. There is plenty of information that remains unexplored. But in our country it is difficult to investigate, because a private person cannot investigate.”

Q: Were you removed from your post and sidelined until you left the Judiciary Police because you were too close to finding the truth?

“No, no. I left the investigation, I was removed from the investigation because the case had to be dominated politically. Just that. Because I opposed the archiving. I told directors in the Police directly that I did not agree with the archiving. They suggested to me, they told me that there are processes, there are investigations that do not end, that have no result. And that I shouldn’t do a lot. That I should consider the case had ended. I always opposed that. That is why I left the investigation, not because I was close to anything. I don’t see my leaving as being the result of someone fearing anything. The question was that the case is political. Only politics. It’s politics that is driving this matter. When politics enters the investigations, when investigations are politically correct, we get nowhere.”

Q: Who do you think is the author of the crime?

“We can remain simply in the area of an accident. There’s people who are responsible. Those who were the guardians of the child certainly have some responsibility. What kind of responsibility, I don’t know.”

Q: Maybe in seven years we meet for another follow-up…

“It’s a cycle. Seven years are a cycle in people’s lives. So they say.”

Mittwoch, 19. März 2014

Britain's Finest

Scotland Yard speaks of new data that has been collected by the English investigation. But the Judiciary Police has another version.

The thesis that points towards a suspect of alleged sexual attacks against British children in the Algarve is nothing but the investigation line that was defined by the PJ team in Oporto, which reviewed the entire process.

A source at the Judiciary Police asserts that this was the line that was the basis for the reopening of the inquiry, in October last year.

This means that what has just been announced in England is part of the Portuguese process, which is under judicial secrecy. A secret that had been well kept until now and that was breached, which may weaken the trust between both police forces.

This information was given by the PJ itself to the British police and to the McCann couple, during a meeting at the Judiciary Police’s National Directory, in Lisbon.

There is an agreement between both police forces: they regularly meet in Portugal. They exchange information about the development of the investigations into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The PJ has always kept silent about what happens during these meetings that take place behind closed doors. A stance that is being kept: Officially, the National Directory does not comment Scotland Yard’s statement.

Thank you Astro for the translation


Scotland Yard spricht von neuen Daten, die durch die englische Untersuchung ermittelt wurden. Aber die Policia Judiciaria hat ihre eigene Version.

Die These, die auf einen Verdächtigen deutet, der angeblicher sexueller Übergriffe auf Kinder in der Algarve verdächtigt wird, ist nichts anderes als der Ermittlungsansatz, der vom PJ Team aus Porto verfolgt wird, das den gesamten Prozess überprüft.

Eine Quelle innerhalb der PJ versichert, dass dieser Ermittlungsansatz die Basis zur Wiedereröffnung der Untersuchung im Oktober letzten Jahres war.

Dies bedeutet, dass das, was gerade in England verkündet wurde, Teil der portugiesischen Untersuchung (Prozess) ist, der unter juristischer Geheimhaltung steht. Einer Geheimhaltung, die bis jetzt gut gewahrt wurde und die nun gebrochen wurde, was das Vertrauen zwischen beiden Polizeiorganisationen schwächen könnte.

Diese Information wurde von der PJ selbst der britischen Polizei übermittelt und dem Ehepaar McCann bei einem gemeinsamen Treffen in der Hauptdirektion der PJ in Lissabon.

Es gibt eine Vereinbarung zwischen beiden Polizeikräften: Sie treffen sich regelmäßig in Portugal. Sie tauschen Informationen über die Entwicklung der Untersuchungen bzgl. des Verschwindens von Madeleine McCann aus.

Die PJ haben immer Stillschweigen darüber gewahrt, was während dieser Treffen hinter verschlossenen Türen stattfindet. Eine Einstellung, an der weiterhin festgehalten wird: Offiziell kommentiert der National Director Scottland Yard's Erklärung nicht.

Montag, 17. März 2014


ohne Worte

Gerry: ask the dogs
Sandra: I am asking you, Gerry

Dank an Duarte Levy fürs Uploaden auf Blip.TV

Ich habe mit der Niederschrift des Interviews angefangen für die, die Gerrys Englisch nicht folgen können. Übersetzen werde ich das wohl erst einmal nicht können.
Hier der erste Teil von dreien, wie sie auf Youtube gepostet wurden:

Sandra: Hello Kate, Hi Gerry. You have called us here, or invited us here to show these two new pictures of how Madeleine might look like now at the age of six and also to watch a video, a new appeal video, but you have been recently together in Lisbon. Have you truely felt that the portuguese public opinion is still with you?

Gerry: I think obviously there has been a lot written that is very negative, and ehm it is inevitable that given so much..., so much was written negative about us, that some people felt that we were involved, that we do feel now, that legal action has been taken and the judicial process has seen that there is no evidence to support what has been written.

Sandra: You are talking about Goncalo Amaral's book?

Gerry: Yeah, but also with the publication of the file in the first place erm an initial process of the criminal erm file and regarding Madeleine's disappearance. You know there is no evidence that we were involved and subsequently the action we have taken recently I think that people are now prepared to continue the search for Madeleine and that is why we are here today asking people to help us trying to get this very important message...

Sandra: But how can you explain that Goncalo Amaral has sold over 175.000 copies defending that you played the keyrole in Madeleine's disappearance?

Kate: I mean I think it's important to remember Sandra, the only victim in all of this is Madeleine erm and that is obviously why we are here today really, we are trying to, we are trying to (sigh) reach that person who knows something, and there is somebody who knows something, not the person who has taken Madeleine, but the person on the periphery, and that might just be erm a colleague of the person, a neighbour, a fami..., you know this person, the abductor, has got a mother, a brother, a cousin, a part of family, so that...

Sandra: Do you believe that the public opinion in Portugal right now after reading the book of Goncalo Amaral erm still can support you? Still can answer to that appeal?

Gerry: Now that's the key point why we are taking action Sandra and that is part of the legal process as you know. There is already an injunction out against the book He is banned from repeating his thesis that Madeleine is dead and we were involved. Now that has been two separate judges plus the original judgemental file have said that thats what we will do with discussing the facts. Thats the correct place to discuss.Goncalo Amaral. And the Book...

Sandra: Are you saying that Goncalo Amaral doesn't have the right to share his opinion, his conviction under the evidence he gathered into a book? He doesn't have freedom of expression to say that and to publish it?

Gerry: There is a difference between freedom of expression and evidence to support a theory. What the judges have said there isn't evidence to support this theory, so he shouldn't be saying it. And is about as much as we want to say about him. You know that's a legal process and we have challenged it, it's been through the judicial process and thats....

Sandra: The files were closed and no thesis won. How can you explain that after Goncalo Amaral, Paulo Rebelo, the next investigator, also pursued this thesis? He also investigated the possibility of you both play the keyrole in Madeleine's disappearance?

Gerry: It was investigated, the evidence was presented to the judiciary, and the judiciary concluded there was no evidence to support that thesis, that's very...

Sandra: No DNA, but how do you explain...

Gerry: No no...

Sandra: ...the coincidence...

Gerry: The DNA is only one aspect of it, there was no evidence to support our involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, that is the key thing. Madeleine is still missing, we are here as her family to continue the search. Now I can't speak for people who have read the book but obviously it doesn't stand up to critical appraisal (?).

Sandra: But this is the first time that you give us a big interview not being arguidos, not being arguidos. Since then. erm. So now I feel free to ask you this directly. How can you explain the coincidence of the scent of cadaver found by british and not portuguese dogs?

Kate: Sandra, maybe you should ask the judiciary because they have examined all evidence. I mean we are also Madeleine's mum and dad and we are desperate for people to help us find Madeleine which is why we are here today. The majority of people are inherently good and I believe the majority of people in Portugal are inherently good people and I am asking them if they will help us spread this message to that person or people...

Sandra: So you don't have an explanation for that?

Gerry: Ask the dogs (smirk) Sandra.

Sandra: Ask the dogs? No Gerry. Now I feel free to ask you, don't you feel free to answer me?

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about (haha) cadaver dogs and they are incredibly unreliable.

Sandra: Unreliable?

Gerry: Cadaver dogs, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically.

Sandra: You read the files, Kate?

Kate: Yes I have read the files.

Sandra: What did shock you most? Any part of the... any detail weren't... aware of? Something that has really surprised you or you didn't find anything?

Kate: Oh I have been through them and I have made notes and I passed that on to our investigation team obviously.

Sandra: And you found any evidence? Of anything?

Kate: Well obviously the only evidence I wanna find is who has taken Madeleine and where she is. They are the key things and until we actually get that bit of information you know we are always gonna feel like we are a long way away. But basically what we are doing is trying to get as much information as we can and trying to put the jig-shaw, jigsaw together, so finally we have the complete picture.

Sandra: And what about your friends? Did you have a pact of silence with your friends?

Kate: (laughing) You know the judicial secrecy?

Sandra: I know it but we don't have it anymore.

Gerry: You have to put it into context of the situation that we were in...

Sandra: But now is the time to explain it...

Gerry: That, ar.. ar... article that was written in June was directly as a result of the journalist phoning all of us, and saying what can you tell us about it and we were under explicit instructions that we were not to talk about the details of the case, under judicial secrecy. So that is all that people did. And I don't think that should be considered a pact of silence.We were told, that's what we were to do. And you wouldn't expect witnesses in other cases in any country to begin divulging information that may be useful to the perpetrator of the crime.

Teil 2

Sandra: Are you still friends? Do you plan another trips together or did it damage...?

Kate and Gerry: No No

Kate: We are still friends. We haven't got any holidays planned but we are still friends. We are in touch with each other, we still meet up and see each other.

Sandra: Don't you agree that there were a lot of details that in a certain way contribute to people to doubt of you, for example, when you went to the Vatican so quickly, all the contacts that you have made. Can I ask you Gerry, if you personally know Mr. Gordon Brown the Primeminister?

Gerry: (moving on his chair uncomfortably) No, and we still, we have never met Gordon Brown. We have spoken to him once on the phone several weeks after Madeleine was abducted. People have got to remember that, and what today is about... good ordinary people wanted to help find an innocent missing child. And that's what happened. Clearly there was a huge amount of media coverage and people wanted to look at ways to help. Our government wanted to assist the investigation to find the missing child.

Sandra: Are they still supporting you, Mr. Gordon Brown still talks to you directly?

Gerry: We have had continued meetings with both the Home Office and also with the Foreign Office to discuss ways in which the search can continue. Obviously today is a prime example of law enforcement-LED initiative with CEOP with... in conjunction with other law enforcement agencies, Interpol, Europol, and you know, the key thing is, that law enforcement believe we can get information from those who may know.

Sandra: How could you explain that Clarence Mitchell left the British Government where he was a press speaker to be your press speaker?

Gerry: Obviously, when Clarence came first out to Portugal working for the Government at that time he came out and spent I think almost three, two to three weeks with us, and he got to know us very very well, and he felt very very passionate about the search for Madeleine and when the opportunity arose, erm, you know, we asked him if he would come back and shield us from the intense media interest and that is what Clarence has done superbly well, and he has become an extremely good friend during this.

Sandra: But he must be paid.?

Gerry: He was paid, that's right

Sandra: And now he must be paid?

Gerry: yeah, but you know...

Sandra: Isn't it difficult for you to pay him?

Gerry: You know, in the first period Brian Kennedy paid his salary and then he was subsequently paid by the fund and now, you know, he works part-time on this, and he is a consultant for Freud Agency, so, you know, as the media interest dropped down, we haven't needed a full-time spokesperson. He still works with us, we are working very closely with him and he has done a brilliant job protecting us and allowing us to have some degree of normality as a family considering the very very intense media interest.

Sandra: You have also hired a new communication agency back in Portugal. Why do you think you need it and is it easy for you to afford it?

Gerry: Well again, it is an agreement that it is funded out of Madeleine's fund. It's a decision that was made by the directors of the fund, because we felt... Kate and I are both directors of the fund, there are nine directors in total, that to really make the search successful we had to present information to the portuguese public, given how much had been written in a negative way about us, and obviously we want to work with someone who understands the portuguese culture and the portuguese media and how we could persuade people that Madeleine is still out there and still can be found....

Sandra: Until when do you think that you will afford all this? Two lawyers in Portugal, a news agency, Clarence Mitchell... I don't know if you still have the two lawyers that you have hired here in London?

Kate: It's not ideal, you know, Sandra. We wouldn't have any lawyers, we wouldn't need any appeal if we weren't in the situation....

Sandra: But don't you feel strangled? Don't you feel that some day you feel it will be finished the money?

Kate: We have to do whatever we can to find Madeleine and obviously we have to look at sort of , you know, if the fund starts to run out we have to try and get more money in, we can't stop...

Sandra: And how do you do it?

Gerry: Well, you know, people have been extremely kind. You have to remember that the fund was set up initially because so many people offered money to try and help and wanted to help and were prepared to donate. We would love nothing better for Madeleine to be found and for the remaining moneys in the fund to go to helping other families of missing children both in the UK and in Portugal, and that is one of our objectives when we have found Madeleine... AND her abductor, then the moneys will be used for that. Obviously if the money runs out... is running out, then we have to look at alternative ways of fundraising erm we have done small events, community events, which have been very good for teambuilding. We have had a small auction in Madeleine's school and the school where the twins are.

Sandra: Do you still have the support of Mr. Richard Branson, JK Rowling, this multimillionaire that initially gave you a lot of money?

Gerry: (burblegurgle) independent investigation that has been funded completely out of Madeleine's fund... I mean an event like today, there is no specific cost for it, and this is obviously the internet, people already have subscriptions, they can do this. There is the willingness of the population to help and I think we will find hundreds of thousands if not millions of people today will forward this link to their contacts in countries all over the world. That is cheap.

Sandra: Do you still have money in the fund?

Gerry: There is some money still in the fund and it continues to be used and we will use every single penny in that fund in the search for Madeleine.

Teil 3

Sandra: You have asked Goncalo Amaral to pay you 1 million euros for damage erm for the defamation for example. Do you need that money to finance the campaign?

Kate: The reason why we have taken action against Goncalo Amaral is the damage that he has done for Madeleine. That's our main focus.

Sandra: Which motives could he have to make up all this story?

Gerry: We can't speak for Goncalo Amaral.

Sandra: But I presume that you think something? Why should an investigator make it up, a story without evidence

Kate: It has to be financial gain, hasn't it?

Sandra: You think that he made this with the commercial perspective?

Kate: You would have to ask him to get the answer to this.

Sandra: So this is your idea?

Kate: It's a possibility, isn't it. I mean I have....

Sandra: You think Goncalo Amaral is trying to win money playing with your, erm your child's life?

Kate: We have to wonder why an ex-inspector of the PJ would want to convince the population that Madeleine is dead, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. And that question should be asked.

Sandra: Do you feel that there is a difference of treatment between the portuguese authorities and the british authorities? In any moment did you feel, or do you feel still, that you were victims of the portuguese investigation?

Gerry: The key victim is Madeleine. I mean, that's what the crime is about. We know we had to be investigated. And we have been investigated.

Sandra: Sorry Gerry, but you Kate said once, that you were feeling bad with what they asked you inside the PJ, trying to get a confession from you...

Kate: I know the truth Sandra, you know what I mean, and all I want to do is find Madeleine and I was upset...

Sandra: So have you forgotten everything that already passed? It's passed for you both?

Kate: The only thing we can do now is look forward, you know, you know. There is lessons to be learned by everyone ourselves included, from what's happened. But, all we want to do is find Madeleine and the only way of doing that is by looking forwards and trying to be proactive and see what we can do now, which is why this message has gone out today.

Sandra: Did you go back to work? Are you working already?

Kate: I am working fulltime in the campaign to find Madeleine. I am looking after Sean and Amelie.

Sandra: You don't have any plans to go back to the clinic?

Kate: No I don't, no I don't

Sandra: You don't. And talking about the twins. Now the time is passing. Two years and a half since Madeleine disappeared. They are growing up. How will you be able to explain them what happened one day they have the age to really understand it?

Gerry: It's like filling in a picture for them with the information we have available and we will give them as their minds inquire, and as they are able to handle that information, then we will answer all of their questions openly and honestly.

Sandra: But what will you tell them

Gerry: Well, we will answer the questions. So what they ask us we will tell them. And we tell them exactly what happened and what information we know. And what we do know, is that we are continuing to look for their sister. They want people to look for their sister.

Sandra: But will you go into details about what happened?

Kate: We will be led by them. We have had avice from a child psychologist and they said Sean and Amelie would lead the way. If they ask a question answer them honestly. We are not gonna rush them, but if they ask something, then obviously we will answer them.

Sandra: They are in the same school where Madeleine was?

Gerry: Well she didn't get a chance to start yet so, she was there, her place is there, and the twins are there now.

Sandra: The room, Madeleine's room is still the same?

Kate: The bedroom? Yeah, it's quite a few more presents in it now, but yeah, it's still the same.

Sandra: And what do you keep telling the twins whenever they ask for her? I presume that they ask about her a lot of times?

Kate: Well they know she is missing, you know, and they know we are looking for her, and they also say things to me like, if they see things like a Madeleine sticker or a poster, they say "look Mummy they are helping to find Madeleine with us", and they might point at other people saying "Mummy are they helping us to find Madeleine?" and you know, so *shrugs*

Sandra: Is it still very hard for you or are you getting used to this reality? Are you trying to live with it?

Kate: You have to, I think, you have to adapt and you have to function. And if we want to look after Sean and Amelie, and if you want to search for Madeleine, then you have to function. Erm. I am obviously stronger than I was say a year ago, and, obviously the emotion is still there...but...*sigh*

Gerry: Well we do as much as we possibly can to ensure that the twins see us happy, and see us happy with them, and they give us a tremendous amount of joy, and our life, you know, on a day-to-day basis superficially would look like any other family with two young children. Obviously one of our children is missing. And they know that and they know that that's not good and they want her back and they understand why on occasion, you know, that we are particularly upset and... we all want Madeleine back to be a complete family again, but the twins are coping fantastically well...

Sandra: You told me once that you are both living a nightmare. In your more optimistical perspective, what do you imagine, what do you think, it could be the best way to recover Madeleine.

Gerry: I think, the first thing today is that this message, it can be downloaded and distributed, get heard and seen by someone who knows, and it will tweak their conscience and get them to give information to bring Madeleine back.

Sandra: The last lead that you have shared with us was about a women in Barcelona. Has this anything to do with this appeal? (Kate shakes head?) Is it for that, that you are asking the relatives of people that can be involved in her disappearance, to call you?

Gerry: I think the first thing to say is that ... investigation matters are to be dealt with by the professionals and obviously we have got David Edgar working for us or law enforcement as appropriate. Today is about this appeal. It is completely separate. It is going out in seven different languages, we want it to be spread as far and as wide as possible because we don't know where Madeleine is and we don't know who took her and that's why we need the public's help to spread the email, an email to all your contacts. I know you have already done it, Sandra.

Sandra: Thank you very much to you both.